Maddy McCann

No seriously.... serious issues in here please..

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Post by garymcnally » 14 May 2007, 23:25

Personally I dissagree with your position. Allthough they SHOULD have made sure that the children where not alone, I really dont think that it classes them as scum. I'd say they made a mistake, and by fuck they have sure as hell learnt from it. But its a mistake that many people might make.

I do agree with you though on the middle class niceness about them. If she was a scabby looking girl, or dare I say, from an Asian family, it goes without saying that the media attenion woudlnt be anywhere near as high as it is, and they probably would get a little bit of a media lynching.
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Post by metal_dave » 15 May 2007, 00:31

i'm pretty drunk, so this may well come out as utter bollocks, but i'll go ahead and say it anyways.


if i had a three year old daughter, i wouldn't take my eye off her for five minutes, let alone bugger off round the corner for a meal in a separate bulding in a foreign country, leaving the doors unlocked. sorry, but the world is full of arseholes just waiting for people to let their guard down. we don't live in a fairy tale, and i firmly believe that when it comes to the welfare of your children you should expect the worst and do your best to prevent the worst from happening. you might call me a pessimist, i prefer to think of myself as a realist.
same goes for the lady that left her grand-daughter (i think) to be mauled by a pit bull (i think) a while back. doesn't matter what breed of dog it is, how big it is, how friendly it is usually, you don't leave a small child alone with an animal, whether it's a pit bull, a jack russell or a sodding cat. it's askinf for trouble.
i feel sorry for these people, i can't imagine how they must be feeling, and i hope they get their little girl back, but what they did was stupid. i know it, they know it, and anyone who thinks otherwise is an idiot.
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Post by Tomaroundtheworld » 15 May 2007, 00:48

Ginger wrote:Firstly, this wasn't meant to be a thread where people slag off the parents for making a mistake. I'm pretty sure they've been over it thousands of times in their heads and feel bad enough already.

Secondly, I would never leave Evie in a room by herself
but they must've felt it would be ok, maybe they've done it before or just let their guard down.

Thirdly. I can't believe that the blame has been put on the parents. Yes it's their job to look after her but there was someone watching her the whole time. Someone took her and it is THAT persons fault, they know where Maddy is.

FOURTHLY. The room was not left unlocked. Someone broke in through the shutters.

And is was night, the crech was probably shut. (This is not a justification).


Have you never left her to sleep whilst you were downstairs having dinner or something for a little bit? Or anything along those lines?

I'm not defending the parents, but as soon as there's an issue involving young children, people are always quick to judge and lose rationality about it all.

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Post by metal_dave » 15 May 2007, 01:07

Tomaroundtheworld wrote:
Ginger wrote:Firstly, this wasn't meant to be a thread where people slag off the parents for making a mistake. I'm pretty sure they've been over it thousands of times in their heads and feel bad enough already.

Secondly, I would never leave Evie in a room by herself
but they must've felt it would be ok, maybe they've done it before or just let their guard down.

Thirdly. I can't believe that the blame has been put on the parents. Yes it's their job to look after her but there was someone watching her the whole time. Someone took her and it is THAT persons fault, they know where Maddy is.

FOURTHLY. The room was not left unlocked. Someone broke in through the shutters.

And is was night, the crech was probably shut. (This is not a justification).


Have you never left her to sleep whilst you were downstairs having dinner or something for a little bit? Or anything along those lines?

I'm not defending the parents, but as soon as there's an issue involving young children, people are always quick to judge and lose rationality about it all.



but there's a difference between leaving her upstairs to sleep (when in all likelihood you'd have the benefit of things like baby monitors and you know, being in the same building) and wandering off round the corner for a nice meal in a restaurant, leaving the place unlocked.
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Post by Tomaroundtheworld » 15 May 2007, 01:11

Like I said, I'm not defending the parents. Just people are always quick to blame and lie a bit to make it sound a bit worse. People saying "I'd never leave my child alone, how dare the parents do such a thing"

I'm not saying everyone would make the same mistake, or even defending their negligence, I'm just saying there's no need for it. The parents are getting victimised for it when they must be feeling like hell as it is, and it's just generally doing no favours.

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Post by metal_dave » 15 May 2007, 01:15

fair comment. i'm sure they know they fucked up.

like me mam said, i just hope she got taken by somebody who just wanted a child and will at least look after her. rather than... you know.
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Post by Web Of Piss » 15 May 2007, 01:57

garymcnally wrote:Personally I dissagree with your position. Allthough they SHOULD have made sure that the children where not alone, I really dont think that it classes them as scum. I'd say they made a mistake, and by fuck they have sure as hell learnt from it. But its a mistake that many people might make.

I do agree with you though on the middle class niceness about them. If she was a scabby looking girl, or dare I say, from an Asian family, it goes without saying that the media attenion woudlnt be anywhere near as high as it is, and they probably would get a little bit of a media lynching.


I think the media have been very, very easy on them, and have been concentrating on these capmaigns to try and get the little girl back safe and as well as can be expected. I believe this is solely due to the family's middle class status. I have yet to read a word of criticism in any paper, or see anyone on TV put the boot in.

If the kid's parents had been your stereotypical chavs, say, I'll bet fucking good money the media would have come down on them like a ton of bricks.

There isn't any point laying into them though, the torture they'll be putting themselves through will be punishment enough, as well as the knowledge that their carelessness has cost them incredibly dearly.

Dave - I hope so too, but we both know the realities of a situation like this, in which case all I can hope is that it was quick.
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Post by phillip_banks » 15 May 2007, 11:29

lol lol lol lol lol she's blatantly dead!

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Post by Chris » 15 May 2007, 12:00

Web Of Piss wrote:
garymcnally wrote:Personally I dissagree with your position. Allthough they SHOULD have made sure that the children where not alone, I really dont think that it classes them as scum. I'd say they made a mistake, and by fuck they have sure as hell learnt from it. But its a mistake that many people might make.

I do agree with you though on the middle class niceness about them. If she was a scabby looking girl, or dare I say, from an Asian family, it goes without saying that the media attenion woudlnt be anywhere near as high as it is, and they probably would get a little bit of a media lynching.


I think the media have been very, very easy on them, and have been concentrating on these capmaigns to try and get the little girl back safe and as well as can be expected. I believe this is solely due to the family's middle class status. I have yet to read a word of criticism in any paper, or see anyone on TV put the boot in.

If the kid's parents had been your stereotypical chavs, say, I'll bet fucking good money the media would have come down on them like a ton of bricks.

There isn't any point laying into them though, the torture they'll be putting themselves through will be punishment enough, as well as the knowledge that their carelessness has cost them incredibly dearly.

Dave - I hope so too, but we both know the realities of a situation like this, in which case all I can hope is that it was quick.


Carelessness?! Fuck me... I pray to God you have kids soon so you can realign your opinion on the whole situation.
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Post by chippy » 15 May 2007, 12:13

Inertia Creeps wrote:
Web Of Piss wrote:
garymcnally wrote:Personally I dissagree with your position. Allthough they SHOULD have made sure that the children where not alone, I really dont think that it classes them as scum. I'd say they made a mistake, and by fuck they have sure as hell learnt from it. But its a mistake that many people might make.

I do agree with you though on the middle class niceness about them. If she was a scabby looking girl, or dare I say, from an Asian family, it goes without saying that the media attenion woudlnt be anywhere near as high as it is, and they probably would get a little bit of a media lynching.


I think the media have been very, very easy on them, and have been concentrating on these capmaigns to try and get the little girl back safe and as well as can be expected. I believe this is solely due to the family's middle class status. I have yet to read a word of criticism in any paper, or see anyone on TV put the boot in.

If the kid's parents had been your stereotypical chavs, say, I'll bet fucking good money the media would have come down on them like a ton of bricks.

There isn't any point laying into them though, the torture they'll be putting themselves through will be punishment enough, as well as the knowledge that their carelessness has cost them incredibly dearly.

Dave - I hope so too, but we both know the realities of a situation like this, in which case all I can hope is that it was quick.


Carelessness?! Fuck me... I pray to God you have kids soon so you can realign your opinion on the whole situation.


I hope you do too. How someone can leave their kids unattended except by the 4 year old daughter in a hotel room in a foreign country, while they are not even in the same building is totally beyond me. That is carelessness.
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Post by metal_dave » 15 May 2007, 12:14

Inertia Creeps wrote:
Web Of Piss wrote:
garymcnally wrote:Personally I dissagree with your position. Allthough they SHOULD have made sure that the children where not alone, I really dont think that it classes them as scum. I'd say they made a mistake, and by fuck they have sure as hell learnt from it. But its a mistake that many people might make.

I do agree with you though on the middle class niceness about them. If she was a scabby looking girl, or dare I say, from an Asian family, it goes without saying that the media attenion woudlnt be anywhere near as high as it is, and they probably would get a little bit of a media lynching.


I think the media have been very, very easy on them, and have been concentrating on these capmaigns to try and get the little girl back safe and as well as can be expected. I believe this is solely due to the family's middle class status. I have yet to read a word of criticism in any paper, or see anyone on TV put the boot in.

If the kid's parents had been your stereotypical chavs, say, I'll bet fucking good money the media would have come down on them like a ton of bricks.

There isn't any point laying into them though, the torture they'll be putting themselves through will be punishment enough, as well as the knowledge that their carelessness has cost them incredibly dearly.

Dave - I hope so too, but we both know the realities of a situation like this, in which case all I can hope is that it was quick.


Carelessness?! Fuck me... I pray to God you have kids soon so you can realign your opinion on the whole situation.




if you don't think leaving children as young as that on their own while you go off on a merry jaunt for the evening is careless, i pray to god you don't have kids.
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Post by chippy » 15 May 2007, 12:19

fucking word mate.
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Post by Ginger » 15 May 2007, 16:13

I do leave Evie upstairs yes. But we actually have a monitor with an alarm on it so if she stops breathing or someone snuck in our house and took her the alarm would go off.

ANYWAYS. This is not the same as if i left her upstairs while sam and i nip down to the indian for a quick korma.

Yes the parents di wrong but slagging them off isn't going to get maddy back or make them feel any better. If anything it'll make the person who took her think twice about returning her. If they're such bad parents maybe they shouldn't give her back etc.
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Post by chippy » 15 May 2007, 16:24

do we have to keep the discussion to your strictly defined parameters?

what's the thread for then? formulating search and rescue plans? or saying how sad it is over and over again?
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Post by phillip_banks » 15 May 2007, 17:24

The parents should be done for neglect imo

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Post by Web Of Piss » 15 May 2007, 17:47

metal_dave wrote:
Inertia Creeps wrote:
Web Of Piss wrote:
garymcnally wrote:Personally I dissagree with your position. Allthough they SHOULD have made sure that the children where not alone, I really dont think that it classes them as scum. I'd say they made a mistake, and by fuck they have sure as hell learnt from it. But its a mistake that many people might make.

I do agree with you though on the middle class niceness about them. If she was a scabby looking girl, or dare I say, from an Asian family, it goes without saying that the media attenion woudlnt be anywhere near as high as it is, and they probably would get a little bit of a media lynching.


I think the media have been very, very easy on them, and have been concentrating on these capmaigns to try and get the little girl back safe and as well as can be expected. I believe this is solely due to the family's middle class status. I have yet to read a word of criticism in any paper, or see anyone on TV put the boot in.

If the kid's parents had been your stereotypical chavs, say, I'll bet fucking good money the media would have come down on them like a ton of bricks.

There isn't any point laying into them though, the torture they'll be putting themselves through will be punishment enough, as well as the knowledge that their carelessness has cost them incredibly dearly.

Dave - I hope so too, but we both know the realities of a situation like this, in which case all I can hope is that it was quick.


Carelessness?! Fuck me... I pray to God you have kids soon so you can realign your opinion on the whole situation.




if you don't think leaving children as young as that on their own while you go off on a merry jaunt for the evening is careless, i pray to god you don't have kids.


All I can do is second what Dave has said here, because I think it is the worst example of carelessness and lack of responsibility. Care to explain your comment Chris?
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Post by phillip_banks » 15 May 2007, 19:54

IamCoop wrote:The parents should be done for neglect imo

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Post by Richbamboozle » 17 May 2007, 15:33

Web Of Piss wrote:
I think the media have been very, very easy on them


I am sure that if (hopefully) they find the girl then the media will start to look at the parents.... in terms of 'should the parents have left her alone' etc etc and them a certain amount of blame will be placed on them.

Lets just hope that she's found to start that discussion.

Personally from my point of view as a new parent of 4 months, I can't believe that they left them unattended while so far away and for so long in between. I have a garage in a block about 20 metres from my house and I might pop out to it for whatever reason but I will always take the baby monitor with me (which still works at this distance) so I can hear if he wakes up (i'll only go out when he's asleep) and will go straight back in.

Maybe that's just as bad as them in a way but I certainly wouldn't leave him for 30 mins at a time with no way of knowing what's going on. Especially as there was child care available too.

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Post by monkey » 18 May 2007, 00:30

metal_dave wrote:i'm pretty drunk, so this may well come out as utter bollocks, but i'll go ahead and say it anyways.


if i had a three year old daughter, i wouldn't take my eye off her for five minutes, let alone bugger off round the corner for a meal in a separate bulding in a foreign country, leaving the doors unlocked. sorry, but the world is full of arseholes just waiting for people to let their guard down. we don't live in a fairy tale, and i firmly believe that when it comes to the welfare of your children you should expect the worst and do your best to prevent the worst from happening. you might call me a pessimist, i prefer to think of myself as a realist.
same goes for the lady that left her grand-daughter (i think) to be mauled by a pit bull (i think) a while back. doesn't matter what breed of dog it is, how big it is, how friendly it is usually, you don't leave a small child alone with an animal, whether it's a pit bull, a jack russell or a sodding cat. it's askinf for trouble.
i feel sorry for these people, i can't imagine how they must be feeling, and i hope they get their little girl back, but what they did was stupid. i know it, they know it, and anyone who thinks otherwise is an idiot.


As a parent I agree with all of this.

Chris and Gary if you don't think then leaving a 3 year old with her 2 younger siblings alone in a hotel is not irresponsible then frankly you should never have children. We took draco to spain last year, we went for dinner whilst he was asleep, however he was asleep in the pram and with us. Quite frankly Iwouldn't leave any young child alone in their own home let alone in a strange place in a foreign country.

Yes I feel sorry for them as to lose a child would be horrible but please don't tell me most people would have left their child as I doubt it very much.

Anyway rant over for now as I have rambled alot but to try and claim this as responsible behaviour has angered me. It would have been resonsible only if she was older not fucking 3!!!!!!!!!!!!
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Post by Ginger » 18 May 2007, 09:04

Anyways, whats to say she didn't wake up in the middle of the night and go out of the unlocked patio doors to find mummy and daddy.
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Post by chippy » 18 May 2007, 09:18

Ginger wrote:Anyways, whats to say she didn't wake up in the middle of the night and go out of the unlocked patio doors to find mummy and daddy.


???
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Post by Ginger » 18 May 2007, 20:27

What?
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Post by chippy » 21 May 2007, 09:57

I was just wondering if you might want to hook that vague, tangential sentence back into the flow of conversation.
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Post by Joeclem » 21 May 2007, 18:28

i.e. someone didnt sneak in, she woke up, realised no one was about and wandered off in search of her parents. where someone then decided they were gunna snatch her. think thats basically where she was going with it.

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Post by Alka » 21 May 2007, 20:29

I dunno.

I mean, obviously it's possible, but like...would she?
Either way it was horribly irresponsible.
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Post by chippy » 22 May 2007, 09:08

She would only have been able to go as far as their balcony surely?
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Post by jo_rhymes » 22 May 2007, 11:03

I agree with Dave on most of this thread.

I am completely saddened by what's happened to the girl and the family, yet not at all surprised.

We all know that, unfortunately, the world is full of weird sickos, and something as precious as a child needs to be treasured as much as possible.

Yes, I think the parents made a huge mistake.

I am sick of the media going on about it, most likely to distract attention away from how our government is out bombing over countries.

I'm sure there is more important news out there.

Sorry if this sounds callous, I do sympathise, there's just only so much you can take.

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Post by Ginger » 22 May 2007, 16:14

So much you can take? Media attention could help to get her back for crying out loud. If it wasn't for the newspapers the woman who saw Maddy in Morocco wouldn't have even twigged!
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Post by jo_rhymes » 22 May 2007, 18:52

I know, and it's a good thing the media are on it, and the police are doing all they can.

But what on earth is the point in these myspace "find madeline" profiles, and facebook groups.

There really is more important things in the world going on, politcally, environmentally...

the bombs in baghdad, explosions in Turkey. Thousands of children die everyday as a result of war.

Thousands of children get raped and murdered by soldiers. They get taken to the sex trade and are never heard of again.

Because this isnt on the news, people don't think about it, so people don't care.

Yes I care about maddie, but I dont see how she is more important than any of the other poor children being abused in the world today.

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