Drugs: Should they all be legalised?

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Post by kat » 12 Jun 2007, 11:23

Tomaroundtheworld wrote:But seriously, two of my mates are doing this for their dissertations. I don't think I could offer a sensible contribution to this right now though. If there was a way to cut out the social issues at the source, with drugs like cocaine for example, it'd be good, but I don't know if it would. It's not as if multi-national companies don't exploit South American countries and fuck about with their politics anyway, so even if coke became legal I wouldn't start doing it.


Out of curiousity, what are they doing their dissertations on? Are they on the public's attitudes towards legalisation or people's personal experiences with drug taking? Just wondered how on earth they got this past any ethics committee at undergraduate level. I'm impressed - I've been waiting months for them to decide whether subjecting people to what is essentially air freshener is ethical. Grrr!

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Post by Tomaroundtheworld » 12 Jun 2007, 11:46

They're both doing politics. And both are just arguing whether or not legalising all drugs would be a good idea. One might not be ding it now actually, but one has been dead set on doing it for a while now, and apart from alcohol, he never touches any drugs.

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Post by kat » 12 Jun 2007, 12:04

Ahh...I see. That makes a lot more sense. Cheers!

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Post by Lord_Blacknose » 12 Jun 2007, 17:51

they will be when governments realise how much money they could make from them
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Post by Dannnn » 14 Jun 2007, 04:42

Daaaaamn, DMT should not be illegal! Wow... :D
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Post by filsatan » 14 Jun 2007, 12:15

legalise them.
I'm fed up with getting rubbish drugs, they don't make em like they used to!
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Post by counterfeit » 14 Jun 2007, 12:54

old.
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Post by filsatan » 14 Jun 2007, 13:13

yep ;(
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Post by garymcnally » 19 Jun 2007, 09:34

i read something interesting the other day, it was an argument that basically said that all drugs should be legalised in this way...

If the government produced, for example, cocaine, then sold it at or below, the actual cost of production, then speant a load of money on educating people about the perils of drugs and providing treatment for addicts, allthough drug dependancy would not be wiped out, it would dramaticlly reduce because,

a) We would be helping people with their sickness (which is what drug dependancy is) and,

b) Because the drugs would be sold below the actual production cost nobody would have any financial incentive to produce cocaine and exploit peoples addiction.

Somehow I think the likelyhood of that policy ever getting adopted is pretty slim :-| But its an interesting idea.
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Post by chippy » 19 Jun 2007, 09:47

It would have to be at production, wouldn't it, because if it was below it would be costing them money.

And they do enough "educating about the perils" already. It wouldn't stop anyone, it would just make drugs cheaper. and probably attract some new ones because of the ease and newfound cheapness of getting hold of it.

absolute rubbish.
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Post by Tomaroundtheworld » 19 Jun 2007, 09:55

I read yesterday about the government looking into banning BZP because there's currently a loophole in the law alllowing them to be sold as some agricultural aid or something, as long as it has "not for personal consumption" on the packet. Their reasons were banning it were that it was found to have side effects in the "comedown" period, such as mild nausea, headaches, dizzyness and anxiety.

Things like that piss me off a treat. How many legal, over the counter drugs can you get that have similar, or worse side effects? I remember I had a type of anti-biotics as my anti-malarials which gave me all those side effects, plus the packet warned that there was a small risk of death! Along with other much more serious side effects than a bit of a sore head and poorly tummy.

"What's that? People are having fun with a practically harmless drug?!?! Let's stop them right away!"

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Post by garymcnally » 19 Jun 2007, 10:00

chippy wrote:It would have to be at production, wouldn't it, because if it was below it would be costing them money.

And they do enough "educating about the perils" already. It wouldn't stop anyone, it would just make drugs cheaper. and probably attract some new ones because of the ease and newfound cheapness of getting hold of it.

absolute rubbish.


The point of putting it at below the cost of production is that it would stop other people being able to make a profit from it, allthough it would be losing money, the argument goes that it is far better to lose money than to allow other people to exploit peoples addictions to make money.
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Post by chippy » 19 Jun 2007, 10:30

Well, putting it AT production rather than below would stop people making a profit, without costing the government or taxpayers money.

Also, run past me again how giving addicts access to really cheap quality drugs is going to help them quit?
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Post by reynolds » 19 Jun 2007, 11:22

i reckon they should just lower the charges associated with certain drugs. legalising them is just going to cause more problems and isn't really fathomable imooooo

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Post by garymcnally » 19 Jun 2007, 12:01

chippy wrote:Well, putting it AT production rather than below would stop people making a profit, without costing the government or taxpayers money.

Also, run past me again how giving addicts access to really cheap quality drugs is going to help them quit?


It was some weird Libertarian woman that wrote it, I dont think getting people off the shit was her main priority, but that people should be able to do what they want :oogle:
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Post by chippy » 19 Jun 2007, 12:10

Tomaroundtheworld wrote:I read yesterday about the government looking into banning BZP because there's currently a loophole in the law alllowing them to be sold as some agricultural aid or something, as long as it has "not for personal consumption" on the packet. Their reasons were banning it were that it was found to have side effects in the "comedown" period, such as mild nausea, headaches, dizzyness and anxiety.

Things like that piss me off a treat. How many legal, over the counter drugs can you get that have similar, or worse side effects? I remember I had a type of anti-biotics as my anti-malarials which gave me all those side effects, plus the packet warned that there was a small risk of death! Along with other much more serious side effects than a bit of a sore head and poorly tummy.

"What's that? People are having fun with a practically harmless drug?!?! Let's stop them right away!"


bzp's nasty shit, potentially more harmful than mdma and is currently sold to people as a herbal high, which is bullshit, as it's a synthesised chemical.
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Post by Tomaroundtheworld » 19 Jun 2007, 12:36

I don't think it's harmful enough to be made illegal, definately. It's legal in New Zealand, controlled and with minimal social and health problems involved.

It's not the best drug though. Fun until you decide you want to sleep, and just lie there, wired and buzzing, but still tired for another load of hours.

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Post by Dannnn » 21 Jun 2007, 17:54

The sale of BZP has already been banned from headshops and smartshops in the UK. You can still buy it from some websites though - one of them is a chemical research website.

Meh, I quite like BZP but I'm pretty sure the short-term adverse affects from it can be sketchier than that of MDMA. The short-term affects linked with MDMA are mainly based on the consumption of water one takes (too little or too much) and the environment one is in (prolonged dancing in clubs, etc.), as well as the obvious ones like overdose. I believe there have been cases of seizures in BZP users where their heart rate has elevated vastly - similar to cases of people on amphetamines. That's probably why I wouldn't take more than a few BZP pills in one night. Besides, half to a quarter of a pill keeps me awake for over 24 hours without feeling tired.

Maybe I've got that all wrong and BZP is just as safe as/safer than MDMA. I don't think it's been tested on enough to have conclusive results, though.

Edit: Found this pretty cool webpage... http://www.spiritualhigh.co.uk/informat ... s/3-7-7-19 They do seem to be pretty safe.
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Post by chippy » 22 Jun 2007, 09:30

from what I have read the neurotoxicity is higher than MDMA.

and bren if you think the only damage mdma does is through water drinking and your surroundings then you are a mug.
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Post by Dannnn » 22 Jun 2007, 16:22

Of course I don't think the damage MDMA does is water-based. I'm just talking about short-term risks: most MDMA deaths have been based around either the consumption of too much water or from the consumption of too little water. Of course other factors come into E deaths - dodgy pills being pushed as ecstasy (like the PMA pills sometimes found), overdose, allergies, mixing with MAOIs, etc. But most commonly people die because they either dehydrate or drink too much.
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Post by chippy » 22 Jun 2007, 17:12

Yep, MDMA itself doesn't cause a lot of deaths, other things do. But pure MDMA on its own still does damage to your serotonin system, both levels and receptors, and various other weird things to your brain that haven't fully been understood. Don't get me wrong, I like the stuff, and in moderation occasionally it's not an issue. But don't delude yourself that the drug itself is totally harmless. Do the purest, bestest uncut shit every weekend and always drink the exact right amount of water and you'll still fill your mental faculties slipping away from you after a few months.
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Post by Dannnn » 22 Jun 2007, 20:20

Oh, of course MDMA has long-term effects, especially when used excessively. And I'm sure there's a hell of a lot more to be found out about MDMA's effects on the serotonin receptors and the CNS in general. But I was talking about its short-term effects in the previous posts.

I'm definitely not one to think that MDMA is completely safe. Anybody who thinks that is pretty thick.
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Post by Krusty » 22 Jun 2007, 20:31

i don't think you find many people that think any drugs are 'safe'.

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Post by Lord_Blacknose » 23 Jun 2007, 06:34

chippy wrote:Yep, MDMA itself doesn't cause a lot of deaths, other things do. But pure MDMA on its own still does damage to your serotonin system, both levels and receptors, and various other weird things to your brain that haven't fully been understood. Don't get me wrong, I like the stuff, and in moderation occasionally it's not an issue. But don't delude yourself that the drug itself is totally harmless. Do the purest, bestest uncut shit every weekend and always drink the exact right amount of water and you'll still fill your mental faculties slipping away from you after a few months.



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Post by Jess » 23 Jun 2007, 13:43

Personally, the side affects of drugs are like a prison sentence in themselves. I find it so annoying and upsetting that people I'm close to are so wrapped up in drugs. Also thinking that nothing bad will happen to them, when actually they have already got slight side affects like paranoia and anxiety problems. I'm waiting for the day when one of them starts hearing voices or seeing little people, it would certainly come as a great surprise. That wasn't supposed to sound mean but I know that one day something bad will come of the constant smoking and drug taking, I'm including cigarettes and alcohol in this by the way too.
Granted I smoke cigarettes and drink and I've had problems with the latter before, but I've also realised what I was doing and sorted myself out several times. I've also done a few hard drugs once and had the odd puff on a spliff here and there.
But coming from someone who has had to look after a mentally ill person and regularly has an alchie in the house, I fear the worse for my friends. I really do. Obviously there is a chance that nothing bad will ever come of the drug taking they do, but there is also a chance that they will go down a very horrid route. I don't expect them to listen to a 17yr old girl because quite frankly I've expressed my concerns before and it's always been shrugged off, they know better right? :roll:
When your friends franticly search the room for a lump of solid because their weed has run out and they really want a spliff after having about 4 already that night, I think they need to get a grip. That's an addiction/problem right there, it's also something my mother would do when looking for more alcohol, hence why I can label it as an addiction in my view.
As to whether drugs should be legalised, well maybe they should, for a start it would kill off lots of addicts by overdose and then of course there will be the people that just can't get enough of the fact it's all legal and make themselves ill, a life time of medication doesn't sound very appealing to me.
P.S: Before Chippy or someone else trys to pick this apart, I am very aware that not all drug takers end up mental or with problems. But this is my opinion and I don't really need to put in the other side.
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Post by chippy » 25 Jun 2007, 10:06

edit: fuck it, never mind.
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