Metal Definitions (PLEASE READ).

Black, Death & Heavy Metal + anything similar Rock etc....

Moderators: Moderators, Music Moderators

Dannnn
Cool Snail
Cool Snail
Posts: 7224
Joined: 09 Apr 2002, 00:21
Contact:

Metal Definitions (PLEASE READ).

Post by Dannnn » 31 Mar 2004, 18:21

OK, this is going to take me a while to write this, so I apologize for any mistakes; I'll correct them if I find any. Here it goes...

Thrash Metal: Fuck, I don't know how to start out...

Guitars: Riffing is basically palm-muted most of the way through each song. The songs typically follow the simple verse-chorus-verse etc. effect (simplicity is effective in the case of Thrash; very few bands get away with making epic songs [only a few like METALLICA, ANNIHILATOR etc]).

Guitar solos are usually done at a hyper-speed pace and rather technically, whereas some bands like METALLICA tend to (or at least used to) write out tuneful solos, instead of the brutal ones performed by bands like Slayer et al.

Vocals: Usually shouted, though some bands sing and occasionally use the typical Heavy Metal falsetto...

Lyrics: Tend to be about war, death, violence and Metal (haha)! Some Thrash bands like ANTHRAX, for instance, incorporate influences from the early Hardcore scenes. (Note: ANTHRAX'S image and songs like Caught in a Mosh.)

Drumming: Drumming in Thrash typically uses alot of double-bass pedal. Blastbeats aren't particularly common in this form of Metal (though the Australians are fond of them - they have a completely different form of Thrash altogether, which I won't get into as nobody from here would appreciate it).

Thrash Metal Bands: Slayer, Metallica, Annihilator, Death Angel, Dark Angel, Exodus, Nuclear Assault, Overkill, Kreator, Sodom, Destruction etc.

Death Metal (I'll mostly be explaining the typical 'American' form of Death Metal as opposed to the Swedish form):

Guitars: Guitars are usually downtuned and most of the time the riffs in each song are tremelo picked with some slow sections of palm muted parts (not to be confused with the Hardcore beatdown). Solos are basically the same as Thrash (see above)...

Vocals: Usually growled (aka toilet bowls/cookie monster vocals...), but sometimes screamed (aka DEATH, OBITUARY and all of the Swedish bands etc). Rarely will you hear any form of clean vocals in Death Metal...

Lyrics: Tend to be about death, gore and violence, though alot of the Swedish Melodic Death bands sing about world issues, humanity etc.

Drumming: Blastbeats galore! Some of the bands playing the earlier style Death Metal (MASSACRE, for example) tend to use Thrash drumbeats as opposed to blastbeats.

Death Metal bands: Cannibal Corpse, Massacre, Obituary, Six Feet Under, Deicide etc.

Swedish Death bands: At the Gates, (early) In Flames, Arch Enemy etc.

Black Metal (I'll mostly be explaining typical Black Metal and Melodic 'Black' Metal; I will leave out subgenres such as 'Suicide' Black Metal as nobody on this forum, bar one or two other people, particularly care for Black Metal):

Guitars: Tend to usually be tremelo-picked most of the time. Solos are very minimal - and when used they're not very spectacular anyway. Not alot of palm-muting is used either...

Vocals: Generally shreaked/rasped. Not much variation in 'typical' Black Metal bands..

Lyrics: Tend to be based around all things unholy, though some bands like GRAVELAND, VELES, LEGION (Pol) etc sing about National Socialist ideals; and bands like (early) CRADLE OF FILTH and SUMMONING (note: I'm not saying these two bands are similar in music..) sing about epic subjects and concepts (for instance, CRADLE OF FILTH dedicated an album to the evil Countess Erzbet Bathory).

Drumming: Usually an extortionate amount of blastbeats, though some bands play slow, cold forms of Black Metal.

Black Metal bands: Mayhem, Burzum, Satyricon, Mutiilation, Moonblood, Deathspell Omega etc

Melodic 'Black' Metal bands: Cradle of Filth, Dimmu Borgir, Graveworm, Abyssos etc. (note: I used inverted commas on the 'Black' part in Melodic Black Metal, as some fans believe it isn't an actual form of Black Metal [the 'over' use of keyboards and such, to give the music atmosphere...]).

Doom Metal:

Guitars: Either slowly picked crunchy-ish riffs or slowly picked tremelo riffs are used in Doom bands. Solos are usually minimal...

Vocals: Well, it depends on what type of Doom it is. If it's Doom-Death, then the vocals are usually growled; but if it's traditional Doom, then the vocals are usually sullenly whined. (Though bands like CANDLEMASS or CATHEDRAL are an exception!)

Lyrics: Usually about mourning over loss of life!

Drumming: Entrancing, slow paced drums. Very rarely will you hear blastbeats in this sub-genre!

Doom Metal bands: My Dying Bride, (early) Anathema, Katatonia, Thergothon, Dolorian etc.

Also, some bands float between the Doom and Black genre; ie: Forgotten Tomb, Bethlehem, Nortt etc.

Power Metal:

Guitars: Total shred fest! Lots of fast, catchy palm muted guitar parts with insane leads dotted about. Always an over the top solo!

Lyrics: Dragons, knights, kings, valleys, knights slaying dragons in the valleys of kings!

Drumming: Alot of double bass pedal action! Again, very rarely are blastbeats used in this genre, though DRAGONFORCE are an exception!

Power Metal bands: DragonForce, Rhapsody, Blind Guardian, Sonata Arctica, Edguy etc.

Nu Metal: Fuck off...
Last edited by Dannnn on 22 Aug 2006, 20:29, edited 4 times in total.
Image

Scuzlebutt
Slug
Slug
Posts: 1457
Joined: 30 Dec 2003, 15:05
Contact:

Post by Scuzlebutt » 31 Mar 2004, 18:45

Power metal. Update. :slayer: :]
Image

User avatar
garymcnally
Snail
Snail
Posts: 5923
Joined: 01 May 2003, 14:09
Location: Stoke on trent
Contact:

Post by garymcnally » 31 Mar 2004, 20:32

I kidna already new about those, its really Doom metal I dont understand :-s Oh and what the blinky is hardcore all about, if its not drinking, doing drugs, basicly straight edge, then surely Buhdist rock would be hardcore? If so, hell yeah :slayer:
Happy now? :'-(

Scuzlebutt
Slug
Slug
Posts: 1457
Joined: 30 Dec 2003, 15:05
Contact:

Post by Scuzlebutt » 31 Mar 2004, 21:47

Doom metal is a generally slower form of metal, but very heavy, and usually talks about things that could be related to just that, doom. Some people would say Black Sabbath is very doom like, but Moonspell and Opeth both have doom elements to them.

I think...


Oh well sure Brennu will fill you in with his magic...
Image

Dannnn
Cool Snail
Cool Snail
Posts: 7224
Joined: 09 Apr 2002, 00:21
Contact:

Post by Dannnn » 31 Mar 2004, 23:40

Updated, just for you two *kiss*.
Image

Josh (Sylosis)
Slug
Slug
Posts: 1044
Joined: 26 Sep 2002, 06:05
Contact:

Post by Josh (Sylosis) » 01 Apr 2004, 00:23

Originally posted by Scuzlebutt
Doom metal is a generally slower form of metal, but very heavy, and usually talks about things that could be related to just that, doom. Some people would say Black Sabbath is very doom like, but Moonspell and Opeth both have doom elements to them.

I think...


Oh well sure Brennu will fill you in with his magic...


Opeth be prog/death metal sonny boy (in their own words too i might add ;) )
Think of doom metal like stoner rock...slow grooves n' churning riffs, usually pretty thick dirty guitar sounds n' less heavily produced drums. Check out Crowbar, they be pretty doom n' the same with down but mixed with southern stoner rock too n' good ol' black sabbath n' zepplin influences 8)

Josh (Sylosis)
Slug
Slug
Posts: 1044
Joined: 26 Sep 2002, 06:05
Contact:

Post by Josh (Sylosis) » 01 Apr 2004, 00:30

anyways brenny! u left out grindcore!

The genre pioneered mainly by birminghams Napalm Death in th early eighties. Pretty similar to death metal in many ways but less complex, little to no guitar solos, fast thrash/death/punk drum beats and a lot of the time, distorted bass. Mostly political lyrics either death metal style grunts or pure screaming. The songs dont tend to last too long, can range anywhere from 2 seconds to 4 mins.

Grind bands: Napalm Death, Nasum, Anal Cunt, Pig Destroyer, Discordant Axis, Agorophobic Nosebleed..etc

:slayer:

User avatar
garymcnally
Snail
Snail
Posts: 5923
Joined: 01 May 2003, 14:09
Location: Stoke on trent
Contact:

Post by garymcnally » 01 Apr 2004, 00:57

Originally posted by Josh (Sylosis)
anyways brenny! u left out grindcore!

The genre pioneered mainly by birminghams Napalm Death in th early eighties. Pretty similar to death metal in many ways but less complex, little to no guitar solos, fast thrash/death/punk drum beats and a lot of the time, distorted bass. Mostly political lyrics either death metal style grunts or pure screaming. The songs dont tend to last too long, can range anywhere from 2 seconds to 4 mins.

Grind bands: Napalm Death, Nasum, Anal Cunt, Pig Destroyer, Discordant Axis, Agorophobic Nosebleed..etc

:slayer:


what about the amazing AD? :P
Happy now? :'-(

Dannnn
Cool Snail
Cool Snail
Posts: 7224
Joined: 09 Apr 2002, 00:21
Contact:

Post by Dannnn » 01 Apr 2004, 01:05

Originally posted by Josh (Sylosis)
anyways brenny! u left out grindcore!

The genre pioneered mainly by birminghams Napalm Death in th early eighties. Pretty similar to death metal in many ways but less complex, little to no guitar solos, fast thrash/death/punk drum beats and a lot of the time, distorted bass. Mostly political lyrics either death metal style grunts or pure screaming. The songs dont tend to last too long, can range anywhere from 2 seconds to 4 mins.

Grind bands: Napalm Death, Nasum, Anal Cunt, Pig Destroyer, Discordant Axis, Agorophobic Nosebleed..etc

:slayer:


I left out Grind, as most Grind bands are more akin to Hardcore, which is a shoot-out of Punk, not Metal.
Image

Dannnn
Cool Snail
Cool Snail
Posts: 7224
Joined: 09 Apr 2002, 00:21
Contact:

Post by Dannnn » 01 Apr 2004, 01:08

Originally posted by Josh (Sylosis)


Think of doom metal like stoner rock...slow grooves n' churning riffs, usually pretty thick dirty guitar sounds n' less heavily produced drums. Check out Crowbar, they be pretty doom n' the same with down but mixed with southern stoner rock too n' good ol' black sabbath n' zepplin influences 8)


I'd say Stoner bands have a distinctly different sound to Doom bands. Cathedral mix the Stoner/Doom sound together rather well.

As for Crowbar, they're definately a Sludge band, as opposed to Doom.
Image

Josh (Sylosis)
Slug
Slug
Posts: 1044
Joined: 26 Sep 2002, 06:05
Contact:

Post by Josh (Sylosis) » 01 Apr 2004, 01:28

no way!!!! go listen to the new crowbar album!!!
download a song 'the lasting doze' its doom!!!
the production is tight as fuck and its full of guitar harmonies, not sludge! mistress is more sludgey.
Anyways, i was saying stoner is similar to doom, as a reference point, not the same thing.

Dannnn
Cool Snail
Cool Snail
Posts: 7224
Joined: 09 Apr 2002, 00:21
Contact:

Post by Dannnn » 01 Apr 2004, 02:47

What is the name of Crowbar's latest..?
Image

User avatar
chippy
Snail Of Satan
Snail Of Satan
Posts: 30353
Joined: 18 Aug 2003, 20:39
Location: Newbury
Contact:

Post by chippy » 01 Apr 2004, 09:16

Originally posted by Josh (Sylosis)
anyways brenny! u left out grindcore!

The genre pioneered mainly by birminghams Napalm Death in th early eighties. Pretty similar to death metal in many ways but less complex, little to no guitar solos, fast thrash/death/punk drum beats and a lot of the time, distorted bass. Mostly political lyrics either death metal style grunts or pure screaming. The songs dont tend to last too long, can range anywhere from 2 seconds to 4 mins.

Grind bands: Napalm Death, Nasum, Anal Cunt, Pig Destroyer, Discordant Axis, Agorophobic Nosebleed..etc

:slayer:


that sounds very similar to a description of hardcore punk to me.
Image They reckon one day you'll be able to wake up and eat a yoghurt you can have a conversation with.

User avatar
chippy
Snail Of Satan
Snail Of Satan
Posts: 30353
Joined: 18 Aug 2003, 20:39
Location: Newbury
Contact:

Post by chippy » 01 Apr 2004, 09:30

Not trying to diss any punkers here cus i used to be into quite a lot of punk n' still like some punk.. but anyways.
There ARE subgenres in punk and loadsa bands that sound different.
BUT i think there is a lot more diversity in the whole metal genre, you be trying to tell sumone whos into metallica about deicide... now you could just say 'they're loads faster, low gurgly vocals, fast tremalo picked riffs, crazy a-tonal solos' ORRR to save urself the hassle u can just go 'they're death metal'.
Obviously not all death metal bands sound the same!!! (to outsiders it prolly sounds VERY similar, but once u get into it u notice bigger differences..as with any kind of music) but once u can fit a band into a subgenre then you can describe them more closely n' pin-point their sound.
Now going from cannibal corpse to tool is a huuuge step and covers loadsa ground, but comparing New Found Glory to the Sex Pistols isn't quiiite as hard. Punk music normally means short-ish songs, basic chord proggressions, repatition and in a LOT of occasions doesn't require as much skill (most of the time! im not trying to offend or say all metal bands are more technically profficiant) and thats what gets a lot of people into punk, they think 'ahh i dont have to be grade 8 on guitar, i can have a go at that too' which is cool (Twaz said sumthin close to that once on here n' probably said it better than me).
You could say how do brass monkeys compare to lower case j? You could say 'well brass monkeys have a horn section, more clean guitar and a ska feel to them whereas lower case j are more straight forward classic punk sound...but then again u cud say brass monkeys are ska-core punk (hope thats right tom ) and lower case j are oi punk...

there just happens to be more variations in the metal genre because theres less 'rules'. If a punk band decided to have 15 minute songs with long ambient, clean guitar sections and crazy time signatures like tool...they wudnt really be classed as punk anymore...but then if metallica did..they'd still be called metal.
Dunno if that made much sense...


some excellent points made there young joshua. i'm not sure I agree that there is more variation in metal than punk, as you said yourself later on, once you get into it you notice more differences, but I do agree that the punk genre can be a bit restrictive (although it is possible for a punk band to do very un-punk sounding music, but I'm stuck for a decent example at the moment, I'll come back to that.) - although i'm in brass monkeys (yeah, ska-core punk'll do, but we call it 'wedgecore' :P - just our sideways dig at people making up genres), and don't get me wrong I love that band, but it's more fun than anything else, when I'm doing music in my own time it's not really ska or punk, bit of everything really, and the stuff I write is not particularly categorisable. as you say, once you've done something unusual with your sound it's easy not to be considered punk anymore.

i think i'm railing against the plethora of made up sounding genres (death-prog-grind-altcore, and daft things like that) I can see how it happens but I find it, well almost egostical when a band makes their own up, like they think that having an original sound equates to inventing a genre, which it doesn't. obviously some definitions are necessary, I guess it's just a case of them getting refined as the years roll on..

anyway, thanks for taking the time to write so much both of you (josh/brennuvarg) - nice to have a decent discussion, and no-one's told me what my face is yet, either!
Image They reckon one day you'll be able to wake up and eat a yoghurt you can have a conversation with.

Josh (Sylosis)
Slug
Slug
Posts: 1044
Joined: 26 Sep 2002, 06:05
Contact:

Post by Josh (Sylosis) » 01 Apr 2004, 13:27

Originally posted by BrassMonkeyTom


i think i'm railing against the plethora of made up sounding genres (death-prog-grind-altcore, and daft things like that) I can see how it happens but I find it, well almost egostical when a band makes their own up, like they think that having an original sound equates to inventing a genre, which it doesn't. obviously some definitions are necessary, I guess it's just a case of them getting refined as the years roll on..

anyway, thanks for taking the time to write so much both of you (josh/brennuvarg) - nice to have a decent discussion, and no-one's told me what my face is yet, either!


Now making up your own defanition to fit your bands 'truely unique' style is totally lame lol (unless ur jus doin it as a piss take like urselves of course).
Buuut, the thing with punk is theres a lot to do with the atitude n' punk ethics n' all that....if u were to see a punk band at the roebuck playing crazy technical guitar solos, 20 minute songs, loadsa ambient/progressive sections then mr jonny wah wah wud tell me 'thats not fuckin punk, punks a lil but wooorr, lil bit waaayy' haha, hes a cool chap.
But yeh, you CAN do all kindsa stuff with punk but a lot of the time it'll be mixing punk with a different form of music rather than within punk, for instance ska-punk isn't pure punk, its punk mixed with ska, where-as thrash metal + death metal = a pure metal cocktail.
There is loads u can do with punk BUT u'll get a lot of punk purists telling u its not punk if you stray too far with it. Which is quite silly, i think there are lots of really narrowed minded punks about, wudnt people agree? (no-one on sos really tho, wasnt aimed at anyone).


PS, grindcore is well similar to hardcore, its like black flag overdosing on speed.

Josh (Sylosis)
Slug
Slug
Posts: 1044
Joined: 26 Sep 2002, 06:05
Contact:

Post by Josh (Sylosis) » 01 Apr 2004, 13:33

...and to mr brenaviking the new crowbar album is called 'Sonic Excess in it's Purest Form'. They call it doom n' whatever kirk says goes cus hes a legend 8)

and yeh..i noticed how many times i said 'yeh theres loads u can do with punk' in that post i just made....shhhh :rolleyes:

Dannnn
Cool Snail
Cool Snail
Posts: 7224
Joined: 09 Apr 2002, 00:21
Contact:

Post by Dannnn » 01 Apr 2004, 16:43

Cool, ty.

As for the whole variation in both Punk and Metal, I'd say it was equal. I mean, I can think of many different types of Black Metal, but I'm also sure there are many different types of Hardcore (from Thrashy Hardcore like The Exploited, to general Hardcore like The Casualties, to Skacore like LOC etc).
Image

Josh (Sylosis)
Slug
Slug
Posts: 1044
Joined: 26 Sep 2002, 06:05
Contact:

Post by Josh (Sylosis) » 01 Apr 2004, 16:58

hmm i guess, im not saying metal is superior to punk but i do think theres less variation in punk music (well..in my opinnion it is but thats just my taste). It depends if you call hardcore a subgenre of punk or its own genre, i know it stemmed from punk but i'd class it seperatly...well..U say hardcore these days and thats bands like Every Time I Die n' Poison The Well n' stuff, whereas theres hardcore punk bands n' stuff...
who's to say

User avatar
THOM
Snail With Mates
Snail With Mates
Posts: 9119
Joined: 28 Mar 2002, 01:51
Location: Newbury
Contact:

Post by THOM » 01 Apr 2004, 17:30

Early Napalm Death albums all sound the same, but it was revolutionary in speed and insanity at the time so there is method in their madness..........somewhere...

Dannnn
Cool Snail
Cool Snail
Posts: 7224
Joined: 09 Apr 2002, 00:21
Contact:

Post by Dannnn » 01 Apr 2004, 17:56

Originally posted by Josh (Sylosis)
hmm i guess, im not saying metal is superior to punk but i do think theres less variation in punk music (well..in my opinnion it is but thats just my taste). It depends if you call hardcore a subgenre of punk or its own genre, i know it stemmed from punk but i'd class it seperatly...well..U say hardcore these days and thats bands like Every Time I Die n' Poison The Well n' stuff, whereas theres hardcore punk bands n' stuff...
who's to say


I'd say that Hardcore was definately a shoot out of Punk, but now it is its own genre.
Image

silence
Wannabe Slug
Wannabe Slug
Posts: 569
Joined: 06 Oct 2002, 05:15
Contact:

Post by silence » 01 Apr 2004, 20:22

There is only one form of ''metal'', Metametal!

User avatar
garymcnally
Snail
Snail
Posts: 5923
Joined: 01 May 2003, 14:09
Location: Stoke on trent
Contact:

Post by garymcnally » 01 Apr 2004, 23:07

Originally posted by Josh (Sylosis)
hmm i guess, im not saying metal is superior to punk


But it is :]
Happy now? :'-(

MetalMan
Slug
Slug
Posts: 1392
Joined: 16 Mar 2003, 19:55
Contact:

Post by MetalMan » 01 Apr 2004, 23:33

I dont even know what you lot are on about
but still, if your on about "genres" of punk n metal, i would say from a musical point of view that theres no way punk can have as many different styles
think about it
punk, a few chords, 2 drum beats, someone who cant sing, and thats it

i mean YES, there are punk bands with flutes in or a bongo player, yes yes yes

but then, if u had, 2 chords played over and over, a punk vocal style, and then, jazz drumming, that wouldnt be punk

where as with metal. with metal huge dynamic range is available, some metal has classical influence or jazz inlflunce, maybe even reggae influence
but it still can easily sound like metal
u can have clean vocals in metal as well as low vocals or screams
any drum style really
lots of completely different guitar playing
so the choice is far greater than with punk, so metal easily has more subgenres or whatever

NOW, i dont even know if im talking about the right thing here
so, yeah

Thomsonrf
Wannabe Slug
Wannabe Slug
Posts: 584
Joined: 21 Dec 2002, 17:07
Contact:

Post by Thomsonrf » 02 Apr 2004, 15:39

yea i agree with jonny, man have u seen the shit thats been on scuzz recently!? the SAME punk bands recycling the same 2 chords over and over again, fucking useless, and the Rasmus should be fucking destroyed
rich

User avatar
THOM
Snail With Mates
Snail With Mates
Posts: 9119
Joined: 28 Mar 2002, 01:51
Location: Newbury
Contact:

Post by THOM » 02 Apr 2004, 15:41

The Rasmus, SUCK! But you cant complain with it too much seeing as Akercocke, Deicide, Morbid Angel are on there now and the vids are awesome!!! Havent seen Morbid Angel yet though ;(!!!

Thomsonrf
Wannabe Slug
Wannabe Slug
Posts: 584
Joined: 21 Dec 2002, 17:07
Contact:

Post by Thomsonrf » 02 Apr 2004, 15:42

they had god of emptiness on there, wats the enw one they have on there? the akercocke one fucking rules
they are "pimp daddies"

MetalMan
Slug
Slug
Posts: 1392
Joined: 16 Mar 2003, 19:55
Contact:

Post by MetalMan » 02 Apr 2004, 15:52

scobo, tob colia

whens your party rich, wednesday?

whos goin


the wind crew?

User avatar
THOM
Snail With Mates
Snail With Mates
Posts: 9119
Joined: 28 Mar 2002, 01:51
Location: Newbury
Contact:

Post by THOM » 02 Apr 2004, 15:54

I'm going wall scoop!

Dannnn
Cool Snail
Cool Snail
Posts: 7224
Joined: 09 Apr 2002, 00:21
Contact:

Post by Dannnn » 02 Apr 2004, 16:06

I just saw the new Akercocke video. What's going on here then? They have cut out the heavy parts of the song (leaving it all clean), and what's more, the video appears to be rather similar to Cradle's 'Babalon AD'. They even nicked a riff from that song....!
Image

Post Reply

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest